‘Wednesday’ Creators: “Nobody’s Expectations for Season 2 Are Higher Than Ours”

‘Wednesday’ Creators: “Nobody’s Expectations for Season 2 Are Higher Than Ours”

“We never thought that the biggest hit of our career would come 30 years in,” marvels Alfred Gough, one half of the creator and showrunner team behind Netflix‘s biggest English-language hit series, Wednesday.

Along with his longtime writing partner Miles Millar, the duo have been responsible for a slew of genre hits over the years, ranging from 2000’s Shanghai Noon, to 2004’s influential superhero smash Spider-Man 2, to The CW’s Smallville (all 217 episodes of it!), to 2015’s AMC cult favorite Into the Badlands.

But its their recent collaborations with director Tim Burton and Jenna Ortega — the director and star of Wednesday and last fall’s box office hit Warner Bros. sequel Beetlejuice Beetlejuice — have given the duo a late-career hot streak.

While Burton and Ortega get plenty of press attention (including from us — see yesterday’s cover story interview with the duo), it’s perhaps easy to overlook that Wednesday all began with Gough and Miller having that lightbulb-moment inspiration to acquire the rights to cartoonist Charles Addams’ morbid deadpan teen and then plop her into magical boarding school to solve mysteries in a TV show. It’s an idea that, rather incredibly, initially proved a tough sell.

Now Gough (the American one) and Millar (the Australian-British one) have the even more formidable task of meeting high expectations with the upcoming Wednesday season two — and, perhaps, expanding the series into a franchise — all while delicately balancing a character that’s so specific and iconic that every one of her subtle moves means something.

“It’s always the biggest priority for us to not suffer a sophomore slump and no one’s expectations for season two are higher than ours,” Millar says. “There are so many shows I watched and loved the first season, and then I watch the first 20 minutes of the second season and I’m out. So making sure the show delivered in terms of the comedy, the mystery, all the elements was our top priority, that we didn’t want to let the audience down.”

Let’s go back for a moment. What was the original idea for Wednesday?

ALFRED GOUGH [Past adaptations adaptations of the Addams Family have always had] the family in their house, and then somebody comes along and tries to dupe them, and then — through a series of events — the Addams Family end up on top. It’s a sitcom premise, if you think about it. What we wanted to do was was two things: First, take Wednesday — who was always the 12-year-old smart-aleck who had the zinger in every scene — and put her at the center. We initially thought, “Wednesday in high school.” But then we were like, “Well, if she’s a normie high school, she’s going to run through that in five minutes — which was was the exact length of the teaser in the first episode [depicting that].” And if you look at the panels in the Charles Addams cartoons, there are all these other characters in there. So were like, “Oh, there’s a bigger world of outcast people with abilities. What if we put her in a high school full of outcasts where she’s the most outcast kid even in that school — and then let it fly?”

MILES MILLAR And when this idea happened, we both immediately thought, “This is such a no-brainer,” and is something that we could really dive into and make great. Then we were surprised when we went out to pitch it and only had one bidder. She’s such an iconic character that it was a bit of a head scratcher. But ultimately it proved that the world disagreed with the studios in terms of what to buy and what people would want to see. Then Tim came into it when it was fully formed — all the episodes were broken and the first scripts were fully written. This was, I think, the best way for him to see it, especially since this was his first foray into TV.

What was casting Jenna like on your end?

MILLAR We saw hundreds of young women for [the role]. The first time we Zoomed with Jenna, she was in New Zealand shooting [the horror movie X]. She’d been up all night, but she was amazing. You have this experience when you find the right person, and they can make such an impression even on a small Zoom square. And not only from reading the scene, but also just talking to her and seeing the intelligence and the intensity, and dry sense of humor.

GOUGH We immediately called Tim and said, “You have to meet her, we really think she’s the one.” Then we had an audition after that with several other actresses. But she was the one. We were a united front on that. From the very first moment we talked to Tim about the project, he said, “Unless we find Wednesday, there is no show.” It was just serendipity.

What were some lessons that you learned about what works and what doesn’t from season one?

GOUGH There were a couple. One was that people are fascinated by the Addams family and don’t know much about them. So I think we only had Gomez (Luis Guzmán) and Morticia (Catherine Zeta-Jones) in two episodes and Pugsley (Isaac Ordonez) in the first episode. But people were very intrigued by the mother-daughter relationship, but also wanting to know more about the family. What’s interesting about the family is how it’s the opposite of Superman — there is no mythology or lore. The family didn’t even have names [in the original The New Yorker cartoons]. The other thing the first season was 98 percent focused on Wednesday. We wanted flesh out the world, get to know other characters, and also change up the mystery a bit for season two.

MILLAR It also felt like Wednesday had dipped her toe into romance in the first season and it ended extraordinarily badly when she discovered the boy that she had fallen for was a monster and serial killer. So it felt like she wouldn’t venture into romantic territory again so soon. She’s not someone who’s really interested in that right now anyway; she wandered down that path reluctantly. But it wasn’t like we thought it was a mistake in season one to go there.

You’ve had hits, you’ve had some non-hits. What was your reaction to this show taking off like an absolute rocket ship?

GOUGH Complete surprise. We love the show. We were very proud of it and we were hoping it would do well, but nobody can expect that. It’s also the power of the platform. Netflix was just the right place for this show. Like when Smallville came out in 2001, it was pre-MCU and we premiered a month after 9/11. Suddenly, the mood went from, “Who wants a superhero?” to “America needs a hero.” So some of it is being the right show at the right moment. And I think with Wednesday, everybody identifies as an outcast no matter who you are.

One observation that’s been made about the show is whether the show owes a bit of creative debt to the Harry Potter franchise at all.

GOUGH You’re in a magical boarding school, so comparisons are going to be there. And Harry Potter is a brilliant book series and a brilliant film series. But we’re always trying to find ways for the show to not do that — trying of zig where they might have zagged. There’s actually whole genre called “dark academia.” The good news is the Addams family brings a completely unique overlay to everything. Some of those comparisons are going to be inevitable, but we’re trying to create our own distinct world.

What’s interesting about Wednesday’s deadpan one-liners is they’re inherently part of this, but there’s also a version where it could become too much of that. I feel like you’re probably constantly trying to balance how much you can get away with there.

GOUGH You’re right, because it’s something that can get very monotonous. We try to not write jokes. That’s the trap with a character like this — writing to a joke versus writing to her worldview and her attitude. So those lines — while deadpan and funny — are really just her expressing her attitude.

MILLAR That’s also the difference between a sitcom and this show. We don’t have a writers’ room of people doing punch-up and zingers. Everything has to come from character and being motivated by the situation rather than just, “Oh, here’s a funny line.”

There’s been some debate along the way about Wednesday having a character arc. Like you want a character to not feel stagnant. On the other hand, applying a traditional protagonist arc to a character who’s supposed to be a bit frozen in time also feels weird.

MILLAR That’s the oddest thing, isn’t it? It’s something we discuss a lot in the writers’ room and something we’ve had a lot of discussions about with Jenna, as well. Wednesday can’t stand still. She has to have some emotional progression each season. It doesn’t necessarily need to be articulated in a traditional way, or be something that she’s even aware of. But there has to be some level of progression without diluting the iconic-ness of Wednesday. It’s a knife edge of tone and character. We never want to betray Wednesday.

Steve Buscemi plays the Nevermore principal this season. From the couple times I’ve interviewed him, he seems delightful. What surprised you about him?

GOUGH The biggest surprise was that he was already a huge fan of the show and he just fit into the world so perfectly. He’s also an actor who always looks good in a crazy wig. He just came in and just brought incredible energy and just he fit in seamlessly from his first day.

MILLAR And he was such a contrast to Gwendoline Christie — who played Principal Williams in season one. When you first meet him, you feel like you’re coming into a new world where Wednesday has this whole different element to deal with at school.

You also have a Lady Gaga coming on board for the second half of the season. How did that come about?

GOUGH It came from the internet when people put “Bloody Mary” [on the viral Wednesday dance video] and then she did the dance too. She seemed perfect. We were excited to find her a small role in the show — which is all we can really say about that at this point.

Speaking of the dance, obviously you can’t replicate that kind of lightning-in-a-bottle moment. But at the same time, is there a part of you that’s like, “How can we have another standout moment this season that pops beyond the show?”

MILLAR You’re always looking for moments like that. We thought the dance had the potential to become viral, but you can’t plan that. You can seed it, but you can’t make it grow. It was the No. 1 TikTok of the year with billions and billions of views. There’s an expectation: How do we top ourselves this time? We have to make sure that nothing feels obvious and make sure that the drama and story work for itself rather than doing something for likes on TikTok.

Just as an observer, I do think putting the character in situations that are potentially outside of her comfort zone is always a good idea — like in the opening of season two when she’s going through TSA.

MILLAR We agree. They’re standout moments, and not doing it every episode helps. So when you do see it, it’s more impactful and funny.

Tim and Jenna are obviously fantastic, but did you feel you get enough recognition for all you’ve done to create and make the show?

GOUGH Writers never feel they get enough recognition. But we’ve also been doing this a long time and we knew that Tim is a huge brand and Jenna was the new sensation. I’ll be honest, you get to a certain point where you leave your ego at the door and just want to make a great show that people love. You only have so many seasons in a career, and you have seasons when you’re hot, and seasons when you’re not. And I think we’re at a point where we are just incredibly grateful for this and that it’s really connected with people. So [when it comes to getting attention], we don’t really care.

How do you guys work together? What’s your process?

MILLAR Obviously, the most important element of our work is the writing, but in terms of actually running the show, we divide and conquer. I’m more involved with the production design, costumes and onset stuff. Al’s very much involved with with the executives and budget and one-on-one with the actors.

GOUGH We cover each others’ blind spots. And in the writers’ room, 90 percent of the time we’re both in there together. But if one of us isn’t, it’s not like Miles is there and then I come in later and I’m like, “What the fuck is this?” and throw it out. We’re not a two-headed hydra that way. We can pretty much anticipate what the other is going to do.

How many seasons is Wednesday, ideally?

MILLAR We’ll take as many seasons as Netflix wants to give us because we made a mistake with Smallville at one point. We had a five-year plan, and then the show went on for 10 years. So we’re not going to get out in front of that. But we certainly have a plan for season three and beyond, ways to keep evolving the character and follow her journey into adulthood. The great thing about Wednesday is she’s got the bandwidth of an AM radio — in season one, just a hug could be emotional. She’s unapologetically analog, and she’ll go into situations that she hasn’t thought it all the way through. For someone who’s so smart, she also makes a lot of mistakes — which is fun. It makes her human and not feel like a superhero.

You guys have been contemplating a spinoff. What’s that look like at the moment?

MILLAR There are a lot of other stories we can tell in this world and other characters we can look at. So it’s something we’re definitely noodling. We’re all Wednesday, all the time at the moment. This sometimes feels like making eight movies, so that’s our focus. But we definitely want to expand this world.

GOUGH At this point, it’s really making sure that Wednesday is as good as it can be. One difference between network and streaming is that in the streaming world, every episode has to be great. You can have no bad episodes. We’re on the ground for nine months in Ireland making sure that every episode sings. So hopefully we get to expand the world, but making sure this show is the best it can be is our priority.

Are you thinking of perhaps introducing a character in season three who could support their own show?

MILLAR Potentially. I mean … it’s interesting to go into season three without getting an audience reaction from season two yet. You never want to be beholden to comments on Instagram. But it’s always good to get a sense of what worked. And we have certain characters who come into season two that we think are wonderful and that the audience is going to fall in love with. Most of the time, the audience adheres to what you think, but sometimes they can surprise you. So it’s about being humble and listening to feedback without falling into the trap of — as we call it — being “fan fucked.” We always want to follow our own instincts. So I think some of those questions can be answered more fully after people react to season two.

Switching gears, a few months ago, Warner Bros. boss Mike DeLuca said that development on Beetlejuice 3 is starting “imminently.” Is it?

GOUGH That’s a question for Tim. What did he say?

Tim was like, “First I’ve heard about it.” But since you guys wrote it. I would assume that you would be on that email chain as well.

MILLAR We feel incredibly grateful to have been asked to write the second movie and the fact it was embraced so fully by audiences after a three-decade break is incredible.

GOUGH There are three emotions in show business: Depression, surprise and relief. Wednesday was surprise. [Beetlejuice Beetlejuice] was relief.

Just looking at your IMDB: Is the third Shanghai movie, Shanghai Dawn, still possible?

GOUGH We would love to make a third one and close out that trilogy, and we came close eight years ago. We had broken a story. [Jackie Chan] circled it. [Owen Wilson] wanted to do it. Funny enough, I just heard from Jackie a couple weeks ago, talking about it again. We serve at the pleasure of Jackie on that.

It seems like the type of idea where Netflix would go, “Oh, here’s some pocket change, go make it.”

MILLAR From your lips to God’s ears. Netflix would be perfect.

Netflix drops the second season of Wednesday on Aug. 6, with Part 2 debuting Sept. 3.