“Who Gives a F*** What Other People Think”: Walton Goggins, Adam Scott and the Drama Actor Roundtable

“Who Gives a F*** What Other People Think”: Walton Goggins, Adam Scott and the Drama Actor Roundtable

“To be rich in friends is to be poor in nothing,” proclaims Walton Goggins, as the glasses placed before the six actors assembled on a Sunday in early May clink in celebration.

The toast comes at the tail end of THR‘s annual Drama Actor Emmy Roundtable, a bonding ritual of sorts featuring a sextet of TV’s buzziest stars at Soho House’s West Hollywood outpost. In this case, the White Lotus and Righteous Gemstones scene-stealer was joined by Diego Luna (Andor, La Máquina), Eddie Redmayne (The Day of the Jackal), Adam Scott (Severance), Jeffrey Wright (The Agency, The Last of Us) and newcomer Cooper Koch (Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story).

But before the cacophony of cheers, the men, most who’d never met before, swapped war stories about the appalling things they were told earlier in their careers — among them: “You’re not getting cast because you have a gay voice,” and, “You don’t have the looks, so you’d better work harder than everyone” — and the restless nights before a new project. Mixed in were moments of levity, even hilarity, as the actors, all at different stages of their careers, weighed in on everything from onscreen nudity to “electrifying” fan exchanges to, yes, the emojis they most frequently use on their phones.

If you were to see “a Diego Luna type” or “a Walton Goggins type” or an insert-your-name type in a script, do you have a sense for what it means?

WALTON GOGGINS Uh, lonely and sad. (Laughter.)

ADAM SCOTT It’s hard to beat that.

JEFFREY WRIGHT I think Walton speaks for all of us.

And yet, I’m guessing that’s not what “an Adam Scott type” or “a Jeffrey Wright type” is?

WRIGHT Oh, I don’t think that there’s a lot written for a Jeffrey Wright type. I have to kind of slot myself into various rooms. So, if there is a type, it would probably be someone akin to having a multiple personality disorder or something. It takes a certain flexibility.

EDDIE REDMAYNE It can definitely oscillate depending on what you’ve done. There was a period when I started out when it was all slightly quirky American characters, and then it went fully into English period dramas. Anything to do with Queen Elizabeth seemed to be my type. And then after The Theory of Everything, it was the sort of scientific, slightly nervous characters.

And now?

REDMAYNE Now, I’m being sent lots of sociopath assassins.

Walton, you said recently, “I don’t think people truly knew what to do with me. I’m not Brad Pitt. I’m never going to be Brad Pitt, but I am Walton Goggins, and very few people fit in my lane.” So, how would you define that lane?

GOGGINS So much of it, starting out, has to do with comparing ourselves to other people and looking in other lanes, right? That just brings so much pain, and after doing that for the first couple of years — “I want to be like him,” or, “I want to be that person” — I realized I was never going to be any of those people. The first acting teacher that I had here in Los Angeles said to me, “You don’t have the looks, so you’d better work harder than everyone in the room. You’d better love this.”

What did hearing that do to you at that moment?

GOGGINS Maybe I’m weird, but it inspired me.

I hope he’s seeing all the headlines now.

GOGGINS Oh, well, yeah. But that’s what it is to be your authentic self and to contribute whatever it is that you have to express or say in this medium — it’s the only lane that you have. It’s really the only thing you can control.

SCOTT But sometimes it takes a long time to figure that out.

COOPER KOCH I was going to say, like, did it click for you in one specific moment or did it happen over time? Because I feel like I’m just constantly comparing myself to what other people are doing and I’m curious how you got past that. Or maybe it just never ends.

WRIGHT I’m trying to get over what that teacher said. That’s a rough thing to hear.

Has anyone else gotten harsh feedback, and maybe it even propelled you as it did Walton?

KOCH I had an acting teacher tell me that I wasn’t getting cast because I have a gay voice.

DIEGO LUNA No way!

SCOTT Jesus.

Does that propel or motivate you?

KOCH Not in that moment. I hated that. And then it starts to make you question yourself. And speaking of self-doubt, I don’t know if that will ever end. I’m terrified.

GOGGINS I think it will.

REDMAYNE I disagree. (Laughter.)

LUNA I disagree, too. But to answer your first question, before Star Wars, the only projects I’d get offered would be drug dealers. And then I could be the nice drug dealer and not the vicious one but still a drug dealer. Because the system wasn’t even sending messages of, like, “Yes, you could find a way to be yourself and still work in those projects that you’re looking at and hoping to see yourself reflected in.” But I do think that’s changed, and the middleman between the audience and us is not there anymore. There’s no guy with a cigar saying, “You! You’re gonna be a star, boy.” People just click now, and suddenly it’s like, “Shit, they’re watching a Mexican show.” You can be as far away as you can from the system, and the system will go and search for you if there’s a need to hear your story.

Before Star Wars, you said you got drug dealer roles. How about now?

LUNA Oh, I still get a lot of drug dealers. (Laughter.) It’s just I’m not looking for what they want me to play. I can look for the stuff I want to do. It’s that freedom that comes with understanding that people today care about specificity. I remember being asked, “Are you going to clean up your accent?” That’s not part of the conversation anymore. But when I was 20, it was like, “Man, you’re great, and if you work with your accent, you’ll be doing what this person or that person is doing.” And you go, “Why would I like to do that? This is what makes me unique.”

SCOTT If you saw me in, like, 1994, when I was starting out, I was looking at pictures of Ethan Hawke and just being like, “OK, this is what I need to do. My hair, my jacket …” I mean, Ethan Hawke was and is so cool.

KOCH Hot!

SCOTT And hot. (Laughter.) So of course that’s what I wanted to be, but I was chasing and trying to be this thing, and it took me years to realize that the only thing you have is you, and you’re the only one that can bring that to it. And coming to a place of being comfortable with that and thinking that is of any value [takes a long time].

GOGGINS I’m just so curious, like Jeffrey, being this far into your career, or really anybody here, what is it like for you the weeks or the night before you begin? Is that anxiety still there?

WRIGHT There’s always uncertainty about whether I’m going to be able to pull it off. We just started back up again with The Agency, and even having done it for a full season, I still felt uncertain. But I think what we do, or what I do, is put obstacles in our way if we feel too relaxed or too content because that’s not a really a sufficient place to work from. There has to be some degree of energy, of concern, and it comes from a desire to do it well.

REDMAYNE I’ll never forget, years ago, on Theory of Everything, the first day we were shooting different moments in Stephen Hawking’s life, and the night before, I was so nervous that it got to, like, 3 in the morning, then 4 in the morning, and the pickup was at 5, and I’m like, “No, no, no, this is day one!” And I literally haven’t slept, so I got in the bath at 4:30 a.m., and the whole day was a blur. The last scene I had to do was this moment of a sort of breakdown, and I was so fucking exhausted that the director just had to poke me and I was (melts down). But it’s interesting because even now, I often can’t sleep the night before, but I’ve learned that you can survive 48 hours without sleep and function, even if it’s not ideal, and also I’ve accepted that that’s who I am. Like, I can’t not.

GOGGINS I think that is a part of the process.

Diego, you’ve said it was your performance in your 2001 film Y Tu Mamá También that led directly to Star Wars. Presumably that surprised you?

LUNA Yeah. That was a moment where I said, “Oh, I got this wrong.” It was my prejudice talking because I sat down and Gareth Edwards, the [Rogue One] director, said, “I want the tone of Y Tu Mamá También in the Star Wars film,” and I just never thought one thing would get me close to the other. And I want to do both. I grew up watching these films. I love the Star Wars universe. And so I went, “Damn, that’s the way to do it, right?” Like, you have to be doing something that matters to you, and someone out there will be like, “Yeah, I connect with that.” And it happened that way. But I remember all the people telling me what to do in order to be eligible for something like Star Wars. You know, “Go to the gym, change your accent, move to California …” And it was like, no. In fact, something I did in Mexico City in Spanish in eight weeks was the key.

Cooper auditioned for two other Menendez projects before landing Monsters at Netflix. Did anyone else fight that hard for a role because you knew it was something that you were meant to play?

GOGGINS I have a different relationship with that as I’ve gotten older. The things that you lose out on affected me much differently in my 20s than they do now that I’m 53. Now, I really believe that, in life, if it was meant for me, it’s going to be for me.

You’ve also been in multiple projects where you were supposed to appear in only one episode and then stayed for multiple seasons …

GOGGINS It’s a serialized kind of experience. (Laughter.) On The Shield, I didn’t find out until the DVD commentary at the end of the first season that they wanted to fire me. And I was like, “I only had four lines, how could I piss you off that bad?” But, yeah, it was The Shield, Justified and a few others, but it worked out.

For many of you, your phones are likely ringing in ways they weren’t prior to these projects. What do the calls look like now, and how are you processing this moment?

GOGGINS Oh, I’m just leaning in to it with a childlike abandon. I suppose some people would take the opportunity to redefine how people see them and maybe become a little more aloof or a little more cool. I’m just leaning more in to who I am as a person, and I’m not walking into it, I’m fucking running straight at it. (Laughter.) And, yeah, I’m getting to read some really cool things now, but the work doesn’t change. The attitude doesn’t change. You don’t change. I’ve been doing what I’ve been doing for 30 years. And I’m still filled with anxiety and I can’t sleep the night before a job, but at this stage in my life, I know that once I’m there, I’ll figure it out. And that’s a place that all of us can get to, that we will get to.

KOCH I hope I get there. It is so crazy that I’m talking and all of you guys are looking at me. This is just insane to me right now. I’ve been watching you all for so long, and I feel so grateful to be here. This is so surreal. I also used to watch these [Roundtables] all the time when I was in school, and now I’m sitting here.

SCOTT Well, you’re incredible, you’re here for a reason.

KOCH Thank you.

Cooper, do you feel a pressure to strike while the iron is hot and line up or say yes to other projects?

KOCH Yeah. And it’s tough because if I don’t have that passion or that immense empathy for the person or the story where I really connect, then I’m awful. I’ve been trying to figure out if there’s a way to work your way into finding that? Or does it depend on what the thing is? And so then how do you say no? How do you say yes?

No can be as hard as yes.

KOCH Yeah. Even with auditioning, I feel like I’m better off going to an audition, not necessarily just to prove it to them, but I need to prove to myself that I can do it, and then I can be confident in it.

SCOTT Cooper and I were talking about choices and the path forward just before this, and I was saying that the thing that I came to eventually was that the things that ended up making any difference in my career were the choices I made for reasons other than career. It was the choices I made because it was something that I wanted to do because I thought it would be fun or it was with my friends or I just loved the material, and I was never even thinking about career and how it could help me along. Whenever I make a decision for any reason other than that, it goes sideways.

When Cooper got this part, he was still working at Salt & Straw. For the rest of you, what’s something that you wish someone, anyone, would’ve told you when you were at that point in your career?

SCOTT At the Salt & Straw point?

GOGGINS Did we all work there?

REDMAYNE Wait, what is Salt & Straw?

LUNA It sounds delicious.

It’s an ice cream shop.

LUNA Ah, cool.

SCOTT I think it goes back to what we were talking about, which is just don’t worry about what you feel you need to push yourself to be, what you have is already there. At the same time, I feel like, to a certain extent, that’s something that is lived and you have to come to in your own way. Part of it is, I’m 52 and, like Walton, I’ve been here for 30 years. When I was starting out, I wanted to be Ethan Hawke and Stephen Dorff and whatever was happening at the time, and with age and experience, you come to a place of accepting yourself and what you have to offer. And I’m just so grateful that I didn’t end up getting Scream 2 or I Know What You Did Last Summer or any of the stuff that I auditioned for. And I auditioned for it all. I would’ve squandered it. I wasn’t ready.

LUNA I agree with you, Adam. Probably I needed to go through that, and not be told. I was doing theater with people who shared the passion I had and I was part of a community, a family, in Mexico, and then Y Tu Mamá También happened, and suddenly we started traveling and we didn’t know that was even possible, and I felt like, “Oh, I can work in other communities, in other places, and find new audiences and in other languages.” And I did the worst jobs ever. Like, in terms of how proud are you of those films? If I could, I’d kick them under the table happily. (Laughter.)

Is there anything the rest of you know now that you wish you knew earlier in your career?

GOGGINS The thing you constantly have to check is your ego. Just because this moment happens and then all of a sudden, it’s, “Well, you have to do things of a certain caliber or you’re going to be seen this way or that way,” who gives a fuck what other people think? At the end of the day, go to work. And, more importantly, don’t manage or try to dictate what that experience will be.

REDMAYNE Maybe it’s my weird relationship with this city because Los Angeles for British actors was like the place, the dream world, and we used to come over and it was normally in January during pilot season. We’d tell our families we were going to go and try to get work, and none of us would get any work, but we’d escape the pouring rain.

It was you, Andrew Garfield, Jamie Dornan, Robert Pattinson …

REDMAYNE There were a load of us, and we all sort of lived together or not. So, whenever I come back here, I feel a profound romance, and it’s a nostalgia. And I get, at the time, we were hustling and I’ve never, ever got a job from a meeting in Los Angeles. Literally has never happened. It would always be when I went home that I’d get some work. But the thing that I’d say is that — and maybe I have over-romanticized it and it’s very easy for me to say having been lucky enough to work — but there is great joy that comes through the camaraderie of that period of helping each other out, of all auditioning for the same stuff. If someone was doing a play or had an audition, we used to get a group and run it all together. Because part of the point when you’re starting out is you’re not acting. You’re working — you’re working at the pub or you’re working wherever, but you’re not actually getting the opportunity to practice. So, I look back at that period as a joyful one.

WRIGHT One thing I tell young people all the time is, “If you want to do this, study anything but acting. Study biology, study anything that gives you a sense of reference and context.”

SCOTT Get out in the world.

WRIGHT Yeah, because at the end of the day, the thing that we’re asked to do is communicate something so that it can be understood. And in order for us to do that, we have to understand it ourselves. And also to Eddie’s point, the nostalgia for that time when you’re just scrambling, trying to figure it out, those are the best days. Enjoy those days.

REDMAYNE But I’m also conscious that it was hideous at the time!

SCOTT Oh, it was such a bummer back then. (Laughter.)

WRIGHT I mean, it’s the cliché, but it is the journey. I did Angels in America, the miniseries, with Al Pacino. And I’d done the play on Broadway for like a year and a half, so I knew it very well, but obviously everyone coming in hadn’t done it before. So I’d get these calls: “Al wants to rehearse. He’s got a room over on 57th Street. He wants you to come.” This happened like a dozen times. Al just wanted to work through the script and dig down into it. Ultimately we did the piece, we performed it, but it seemed to me that he was much more interested in the process of getting there.

SCOTT Oh, interesting.

WRIGHT For him, that was everything. The journey was far more critical than the ultimate destination, and I think there’s something to be said for that.

We’ve talked a lot about how the industry sees you; I’m curious how fans see you. If a fan is approaching, what does he or she tend to recognize you from and what does he or she typically say?

KOCH It’s always just, “Can I have a picture?” And I’ve developed a rule: Give me a compliment first. (Laughter.) Just say you liked the show before you ask for the photo. Because then it’s just like, “That’s all you want? You don’t want to talk to me? Like, I would talk to you.” I had someone the other day follow me to the car at the grocery store just for, “Can I have a photo?” And I’m super nice. I’d never be rude to somebody. But I’d rather connect.

SCOTT Help me load my groceries at least!

KOCH And then when you do have those connections with people who stop you and say, “I’m so sorry, I don’t want to bother you, but I loved the show,” or, “You’re amazing,” or, “I was really moved by your thing,” whatever it is, it just feels so good.

What do the rest of you get?

GOGGINS “You have any cocaine?” “You packing, man?” (Laughter.) With me, I think people feel like, “Oh, man, I know this guy. I want to have a drink with this guy. I want to hang out with this guy.” And I don’t know if it’s because of where I come from or just the way I move through the world, but people just feel like they have a right [to approach me] — and I feel like they do, too. It’s like, “I’ve asked you to come spend, like, 84 hours of your life with me [on various television shows], and I can’t [make time for you?]” Are you joking? So, it’s, “OK, what did you think [of that episode]? Really? What did you think was going to happen?” And I’ve gotten into some disagreements.

You have?

GOGGINS Like, “I think you missed the point, man.”

You feel compelled to explain it to these fans?

GOGGINS Well, yeah. I mean, if they’re sharing an idea, like, “This is what I think.” I’ll say, “Well, it’s interesting that it hit you that way. I think you’re wrong.” (Laughter.) But I quite like having those conversations. And this is going to sound weird, but I’m a father, and I just feel like every time I’m stopped on the street, I can provide for my family. Like, it’s a blessing, not a curse.

LUNA You also can’t talk about the audience as if it’s one thing. For example, the guys who belong to the Star Wars community, they care profoundly. They’re experts in what you are working on, and that feels amazing. It’s like suddenly someone cares as much as you do; normally, it’s the other way around. You go out hoping to get people’s attention, and it’s, “Please watch my show.” Here, it’s like, “We’re waiting for your show. When are you going to be done? “

WRIGHT With things like The Batman, I appreciate how invested people are. They feel a personal connection to these stories and characters, and I’ve grown to really respect that. Particularly now, when things are so uncertain in the world and so odd and precarious, people find genuine hope and a real sense of personal connection and comfort in story, and it’s not a superficial thing, it’s a critical thing. So, for example, I love going to Comic-Con.

You do?

WRIGHT Oh, I love it. Because you get an opportunity to experience this genuine appreciation that otherwise becomes completely abstracted because you don’t have that connection between the stage and the audience that you do in the theater.

SCOTT I feel the same way with Severance. People who come up and want to talk about Severance are really interested.

What do they typically say?

SCOTT Mostly it’s how much they love it, and who they watch it with is really important. And it’s great because when we first made the show, we figured it was so weird, it would just be ignored. We never thought it would connect the way it’s connected, so when people come up and want to talk about it, I love it. And people are so smart and invested, and it being on TV, it’s really ingrained into their lives in a different way, and there’s a comfortability that’s really lovely.

REDMAYNE Do they give you plot suggestions?

SCOTT Oh, yeah!

REDMAYNE “Season two, I’m thinking …” (Laughter.) I haven’t done TV that comes out weekly like this in a while, and in a time in which the world is becoming somehow less communicative, the fact that people are waiting that week, and (to Goggins) I really felt it with your show, that sort of anticipation, the watercooler discussions and the way that people want to stop you to really …

KOCH Have a connection!

REDMAYNE Yeah, and I’ve found that so thrilling. I’m like, “My God, you really care.”

SCOTT When you’re out in the world, in the midst of a season where there are cliffhangers and there’s anticipation for the next one, it really is …

GOGGINS It’s electrifying!

SCOTT It’s so fun. People coming up and wanting to know, but they don’t want to know. It’s really fun.

GOGGINS I was in New York City, maybe episode seven of The White Lotus, and I was just walking down the street, and it was surreal. It was like a dude on a fifth-floor walk-up balcony, “Goggins, come on, Rick.” Then a guy comes out of a shop, “Goggins!” And then somebody going by in a car, “Rick Hatchett, you found peace, man.” And I’d be like, “Hey, what’s up man? I hope so!” And it was like block after block …

KOCH Must feel so good.

GOGGINS Yeah, and there’s no ego, right? This is just something culture is participating in in this moment and you just happen to be a part of it. And it’s the same with Baby Billy [from The Righteous Gemstones]. People love Baby.

We saw a lot of Baby Billy this past season. Cooper’s shower scene got a lot of attention, too. So, this is a somewhat awkward pivot, but my question is about nudity, which most of you have done at some point in your career …

GOGGINS Where’s this going? (Laughter.)

Sometimes you choose to use a prosthetic, sometimes you use a body double, sometimes you do it naturally. I’m curious what is the conversation around when to show what and how to show it?

SCOTT We’re talking penises.

KOCH Oh God.

REDMAYNE You made that a flawless pivot.

LUNA I think TV has made the conversation more complicated. I did it in film, but I don’t think it mattered that much. Now with the devices and how we are communicating and how images can be taken out of context immediately and be shared, things have changed. But I don’t think in cinema you would ask the question that way. It’s like, “What story are we telling? How do we tell it? And where is the camera going to be?” It would never be, like, “Should we do it or not do it or do it this way” — as if it was a math problem. I don’t think I could even think that way. It’s like, “Let’s do the same, but with no frontal, but half nudity.” There’s even terms now. I go, “I don’t understand. I don’t speak that language.”

Cooper, you said, “Oh God,” as soon as I brought it up. Why?

KOCH Oh, I don’t know. I just always want to live in the reality and truth of something, and if you have a sex scene and immediately they’re pulling up the blankets right after, it’s like, “That’s not real.” I didn’t want to have to deal with trying to hide or be a certain way; I wanted [the scene, which he did without a prosthetic] to just be real and show how it would actually be in that situation.

We’re going to end on a significantly lighter but hopefully revealing note: What is the most used emoji on your phone?

KOCH I do the hug.

SCOTT Oh, that’s nice.

GOGGINS I have the grin one, you know the super cool one with shades?

KOCH That makes so much sense.

REDMAYNE I have the one with the massive amount of teeth.

SCOTT I’m a dad, so it’s the thumbs-up. My kids are just like, “Jesus Christ. Use something else.”

GOGGINS That is so funny.

KOCH The dad thumbs-up!

SCOTT (To Goggins.) You use the thumbs-up, too?

GOGGINS No, [my son] shut that down pretty quick.

SCOTT I need to stop.

WRIGHT Face-palm is mine. It’s fitting.

LUNA I’m boring. I have one that I use, which is a little boy dancing.

How is that boring?

LUNA Well, because it’s been happening for eight or nine years.

SCOTT Is that like an affirmation? Like, right on?

LUNA Yeah, it’s like, “It’s going to get better.” But it works for everything. “Don’t worry, life is fun.” Or, “Oh my God, you just said something great.” Or, “Oh shit, I’m having a shitty day, I wish I was this boy.” I don’t know, I just use that one.

REDMAYNE I really worry that these emojis are indicative of our personalities, and I should have thought harder about that one.

This story appeared in the June 18 issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine. Click here to subscribe.